Returnable cases?

[csquared]

Anyone have contact info for a supplier of returnable cases and/or 12 packs (Canadians/Germans)? I've got a local green idea we'd like to look at. So far no luck in supplier responses from my google searches.

Thanks!

Caleb Staton
Head Brewer
Upland Brewing Co.
caleb@uplandbeer.com

[einhorn]

As far as I know, number one in Germany is Schoeller Plast (http://www.schoellerarcasystems.com/Europe/Home/). There are a few others (Delbrouck located in Minden, DW Plastics in Belgium, Strazaplastika in Croatia) which you might also check out.

But one warning: refillable beverages are a barrel of monkeys. You will need lots (at leat double) the square footage, you need a large washing machine, depallitizer, case washer & unpacker, only certain labels & glue work, the logistics of delivery & pickup are a nightmare, etc. If you want to see exactly how it works, visit a German brewery or the Brau Bevial in Nürnberg/Munich one day and be amazed at this "green" solution which is argueably, due to the high water & energy usage, not as green as you might think.

[csquared]

I'm not looking into getting into returnable bottles, quite aware of the complications, especially for a brewery our size. However, I think a local distribution of returnable cases (deposit included), might be feasible for some of our local foods retail accounts. The green aspect would be avoiding six packs and case cartons, just rinsing down well the returned plastic returnable cases and filling right back up.

Our distributor may not be crazy about it, but I think starting out in a few select retail accounts, alot of this could be handled with our own pick up truck.

I've got an inkling that our local market would reuse these containers and cut down on cardboard waste (although cardboard is pretty recyclable), but it would also eliminate some labor on our end. Proof would be in the pudding, if 5-10% of our returnable case fleet is lost a year (similar to kegs), I think we would be doing pretty well.

[einhorn]

That sounds like a great idea. Hopefully your distributor will "play ball" - the idea is probably easier to handle logistically if one is self-distributing.

If I recall correctly, cases generally ran about €2.50 each. With the skyrocketing oil prices, they are guarenteed higher nowadays. If you order non-branded cases, they will surely be cheaper and you probably wouldn't have a minimum order.

Good luck and let us (me) know how your distributor and customers react to the idea.

[jesskidden]

Falstaff used plastic returnable/reusable cases in the 1980's (seen here in photos of the shuttered Ft. Wayne brewery (http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/_borders/ftw14.jpg)). Don't know if they also charged a separate deposit for the case itself (as was the case with the old cardboard shells that contained reusable bottles, where the $1 total deposit equalled 2¢ a bottle X 24, plus 52¢ for the box).

These seem to be reusable bottles. (http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/_borders/Falstaff06.jpg)

They also sold both Falstaff and Narragansett beer (http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/_borders/ftw10.jpg) in similar 12 pack plastic cases. These were available IIRC in states with mandatory deposit laws, the bottles were of the "throw-away" variety (i.e., not reusable) but had, of course, the 5¢ deposit.

[BubbaBeerBacon]

Try this guy
Norseman plastics
813-226-006
…good luck with the project, recycling is the way to go!

I also have the name of a broker if needed.

[csquared]

Little update and more questions for this project.

Schoeller Arca ended up being the only bid I could receive from suppliers of these types of package. They manufacture both 12 pack and 24 pack cartons. They run in the teens for both units, with quantity price breaks.

I'm working on a state grant now to help get this off the ground, involves source reduction (cardboard) as a requirement. I can also get bottles picked up at our brewery for cullet re-use at our bottle manufacturer, so there may be a recycling loop thrown in on our restaurant carry-out.

As to my questions, another idea is to go totally paperless by pre-printing the 12 oz. bottles. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Looks like it would involve an extra shipping route from glass supplier to printer. Is printing a bottle truly more sustainable than labelling with existing equipment? Glass screen printing vs. printed paper production?

[canyon]

Little update and more questions for this project.

Is printing a bottle truly more sustainable than labelling with existing equipment? Glass screen printing vs. printed paper production?

Not for single use IMHO. But definitely for re-using. Otto Bros. in Jackson Hole Wyoming (Now in Driggs Idaho?) used to do that with 22 oz. silk screened and deposit. :)

[SRB]

.... Otto Bros. in Jackson Hole Wyoming (Now in Driggs Idaho?) ...

Otto Bros. is now Grand Teton out of Victor,Idaho (http://www.grandtetonbrewing.com/History.html)

:)

[BubbaBeerBacon]

Weeping Radish Brewery in NC is doing it with their 16oz bottles!

[twoodward15]

If you want to give it a try on a small scale (just a few cases) I can get some together for you. Shipping would be expensive. If I remember correctly the empties and the case alone weigh 28 pounds.42 pounds full. They are .5literbottles. I have swingtop and pry offs that are from germany. I don't know how to get them to you safely and cheaply though.

[gabewilson50]

Caleb,

Did you try Cal Glass? It looks like they offer bottle printing services as well as bottles. I know that if we wanted to have painted glass bottles here, we'd just order them from the bottle manufacturer (but I don't think that you'll be importing bottles from Central America). The only problem with us was that painted bottles don't offer the same kind of flexibility as labels.

I can ask about plastic case holders here if you're interested, they use them all over the place here and we considered buying some. I imagine you'll have to import them from wherever you end up finding them.

Good luck!

--Gabe

[csquared]

This project keeps getting stranger. Looks like I may be able to pull together a grant for an Indiana plastics company to create a recycled-content carton. Considering there is no domestic source for these containers, I think a US supplier will be pretty successful with the product. If it gets off the ground, I'll post here, would be a great way to increase carry-out sales for breweries with tap rooms attached. Less labor and being nice to the environment never felt so good!

Gabe, I wouldn't mind seeing pricing from down there on the container. I just spent a couple weeks in the Rica earlier this year, only beers I could find were Imperial, Tona, and Guinness! Pura Vida!

[twoodward15]

If you can get the customer to pony up a few dollars for the returnable case/bottles it might work. If I remember correctly those cases are pretty expensive. I think we paid 3.5 euros (about $5) for the deposit on them over there. Once you get someone to buy a case I think it would keep them buying your product as they won't have to pay the deposit again.......or they'll switch and use the $5 towards another case of beer.