Jiffy spray sanitizer?

[RobZamites]

Just a quick query -- you know how it's so handy to have a few spray bottles hanging about the brewhouse -- for sanitizing a TC fitting, a clamp gasket, a zwickle after sampling from it, etc.? What do you folks use? I used a 25 ppm solution of iodophor at my last gig, but where I'm working now, the brewer swears by plain old isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. I asked a close brewer friend about that, and he said the rubbing alcohol method was (as far as he knew) useless unless you lit the stuff on fire. Would quat work? Is iodophor fine? Any comments appreciated.

Rob

[tarmadilo]

I always used a weak phosphoric acid sanitizer solution. Worked just fine for me!

Cheers, Tim

[beauxman]

Using a diluted peracetic acid (Wesmar's purisan) in my sprayer, never had a problem. Make sure you are refreshing your bottle daily for best results.

[steved]

I've used a 70% isopropyl alcohol solution for all of my zwickels and I've never had a problem. And I've never lit them on fire.

[gitchegumee]

Are you packaging? Pastuerizing? No? How long does your product last in a serving tank? I've worked with brewing chemists and microbiologists who had me obtain sterile samples from zwickles only after they showed me how to "properly" spray and flame ethanol from them. And we also broke down, cleaned, sanitized, and relubricated the zwickles after each tank use. Now, when I take samples for other than ideal sanitary conditions (ie: daily Platos as opposed to bacterial counts), I always use an iodophor solution. Much depends on your particular situation. Just being aware of ports of entry for bacteria is the first step to controlling it. Good luck & Cheers!

[Greenbrewmonkey]

Hello,

I would suggest either iodophor or peracetic used in a no-rinse concentration, with fresh solutions prepared daily. (But for job security I would suggest using whatever your brewmaster tells you to use. Brewmasters can get cranky when sanitation procedures are not followed to the letter. At least I do!) For sterile samples ethanol and flame are the way to go, but I am very leery of spraying anything on a sample port, gasket, etc., that is not at a no-rinse level. Isopropyl alcohol may work well for cuts and scrapes, but on a sample port? Ever taste that sample? Not wishing to ingest isopropyl, the thought just makes me nervous.

Quats are notorious difficult to rinse, hence their use on counters, floors, and in moldy corners. Avoid all contact with anything that comes into contact with beer!

Cheers,
Ron

[pennbrew2]

70% ethanol.

[Alex T]

hi,

i would go with 70% ethanol as well. keep a 20L drum of methylated spirits in the brewery and dilute down to 70% - works excellent. strength should not be lower than 70%, otherwise the disinfecting will be insufficient. also, don't use it straight because it doesn't have good "wetability".

alex

[steveg]

Use 70% concentration of alcohol, no more, no less. That is the ideal concentration. If you use a higher concentration, then there is not enough water to denature the protein and thereby kill the microorganisms. If you use a lower concentration, then again you will not kill the bacteria.
You'll be OK if you are like within 1 or 2% of that concentration, but do try to be accurate.
Of course a propane flame is a great idea too, but if you can't afford it, then at least have your alcohol.
If you use IPA (Iso-Propyl Alcohol, not India Pale Ale) or de-natured Ethanol, just make sure to wash the area with water after use.

[theburden]

What do you folks use? I used a 25 ppm solution of iodophor at my last gig, but where I'm working now, the brewer swears by plain old isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. I asked a close brewer friend about that, and he said the rubbing alcohol method was (as far as he knew) useless unless you lit the stuff on fire.

We use 70% Isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle. I was a little surprised by the idea of lighting it on fire. I asked my dad who works in the pharmaceutical industry, and they also use a 70% Isopropyl solution when they take a sample off a tank or need to sanitize something. If it's good enough for the manufacture of drugs or other internal products which require an aseptic process, then I think it's good enough for a brew house.

[Valleybrew]

I use a no rinse Iodophor for all spray sanitation needs.

[pbutlert]

I use 5 Star Star San right now, filling the bottles out of a bucket that is used for soaking keg filling lines, etc. No big whoop.......

Paul Thomas
Bitter Root Brewing

[Larry Horwitz]

Just a quick $$ note. Isopropl works, but it is Very, Very expensive compared to acid anionic, iodopher, etc. Not really an issue in small quantities I guess, but my budget is tight, and I am bonused well for low costs. Also, I tend to agree that iso really doesn't have a place in the processing areas. The FDA wouldn't allow it.....why should we? It is not, I repeat NOT an FDA approved no rinse sanitizer.

also, the perlick type swickles most of us use are very, very hard to use in a totally sanitary manner. ATP swabbing will show that unless you get it hot (all the way through the valve, not just the outlet) you aren't steril, and on the low end of sanitary. There are sanitary sample cocks out there....but they are pricey....

[BMOOR]

Sounds like we can't get a consensus on this issue. We also use isopropyl alcohol(70%)-just as a contact sanitizer(fittings, zwickles, gaskets etc).

Larry, what kind of volume do you do? We're only about 500 bbl (4 FV and 10 BBT) and one $1 bottle of isopropyl lasts me over a month. I'm sure I don't spend 15-20 bucks a year on my alcohol supply.

I also have employed bottles of iodine solution, but to my understanding volatilizes pretty readily and you are constantly refilling bottles. I guess refilling each day from a soak bucket isn't hard, but either is grabbing my isopropyl bottle either.

As far as a flavor from it, it evaporates completely so just be patient.

Everyone has given some solid reasons for using it or not using it, I just wonder if somebody can quote some science regarding the matter. Can we get any definitive answer or do we just stick with our opinions??

Finally, in matters such as this I lean on my philosophy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Cheers all-

[Moonlight]

I use two different spray bottles, depending on what I need to accomplish. For a quick hit before a connection if something is already clean, cheap isopropyl. If there is something not visually clean that needs to be burned, I use peracetic. Look for the bubbling to know it's active. This helps loosen old dried beer, etc, before rinsing.
I always see brewers spray sample cocks BEFORE taking a sample. (not meaning a microbiological sample) A couple seconds of contact with dried, spoiled beer residue is pointless. Why don't people spray their sample cocks AFTER they take a sample?? Rinsing out the tiny beer residue prevents nasties from growing there when there is no beer to eat.
I use Shea sample cocks which are much more sanitary than Perlicks. They cost around $70. The gaskets often need to be replaced, but that is easy and cheap.
When I worked for Schlitz, the lab guys would sterilize fermentation tank Perlicks with a propane torch to get a sterile sample. The wort became sticky goo, and everone had to use short pieces of 1/2 copper pipe as cheater bars to open/close them. Invariably the handles would break off after the barrel siezed. Usually the handles broke as the sample cock was attempting to be closed. We'd have to stick a pencil point into the open sample cock to keep it from draining the tank to the floor, and of course maintenance couldn't replace it until the tank was empty the next week. Kinda stupid situation.

[rafters_brewer]

Just to add my two cents - I use alcohol whenever I'm dealing with live yeast (yeast transfers, brew knockouts) and iodophor (Zep-I-Dine) for everything post-fermentation. As iodophor is a fungicide, I assume the yeast would prefer to not come in contact with it.

On a side note, the spray-and-flame method for sanitizing sounds like a lot of fun and I'm sure the customers would enjoy the show.

[crassbrauer]

According to what I've read iodine has a broader killing spectrum than isopropyl alcohol ("killing spectrum" isn't the official term; I can't think of it right now). Lighting the alcohol on fire is fun, but the time's too short to do any good. Also the fire causes gaskets to become damaged, which facilitates bacterial growth.

[RobZamites]

I'm still using 70% isopropyl for quick killing -- when I get the new brewery in operation, I suspect I'll be doing the same thing. Seems to work ;)