vanilla flavoring

[frigatebay]

I'm thinking about adding a seasonal vanilla brown ale. Whats the best method to get vanilla flavor in it? FYI it will be brewed in 20bbl batches, both bottle and keg.

thanks in advance

[tariq khan]

My vote would be to use vanilla sticks, the kind you get from German bakeries and chuck some in near the end of the boil. They're quite expensive though. I haven't found a decent vanilla extract yet but i'm sure it must exist for brewers.

Tariq (Dark Star brewery, West Sussex,U.K.)

[Greene Lawson]

We use split vanilla beans in the hopback

[Greenbrewmonkey]

Aloha,

My vote goes to vanilla beans. Tahitian if you can get it, Madagascar if not. I used to use approx. 9 beans per BBL, used in similar method to dry hopping. This is for a totally over the top silken smoothness in a stronger darker ale. For a nice brown I might go 3 beans per BBL. In a bag in a CT for, well, until it's done. I would usually give at least two weeks, sometimes longer for full flavor melding. Extracts can taste artificial (think hand lotion). Go natural.

Cheers,
Ron
Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales

[RobZamites]

Ron, do you split the beans before adding them to the bag, or just pop 'em in whole?
Inquiring minds want to know!

Rob

[Greenbrewmonkey]

Hello Rob,

Just popped them in whole. Usually in a mesh bag, tied to some tank protuberance, as to insure they stayed in the beer, and didn't just float on top.

The amounts I gave above have always given me a whole lot of vanilla flavor. If you are looking for a milder "hint" I might back off even a bit more.

Its always fun to experiment in a few casks or bung sided kegs to find the "right" amount before committing to a 20 BBL batch! I wish chem. lab had been as interesting (and tasty!)

Cheers,
Ron
Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales

[beauxman]

mmmm, vanilla porter....nitro vanilla porter! Use the beans, split and scrape them out and then "dryhop" the beer with it. Avoid at all cost any extract or flavorings. Word to the wise, it does not take much with this method! Your female servers will love you for it!

[RobZamites]

Beauxman , I'm making a 15 bbl batch, think a pound is overkill?

Rob

[beauxman]

I think we used 2 beans per bbl, its been a few months. Go conservative because you can always add more. Good luck.

[Fred Scheer]

Why not using Pure Vanilla Extract?
450 oz for 200 BBL K.O. wort, 10 min. before K.O. :)

[Fred Scheer]

Ups....

It should be 45 oz for 20 BBL; I saw it wrong...Sorry

[RobZamites]

Yeah, Fred, I talked to another fellow brewer, and he said that using pure vanilla extract would not only be more economically sound, but would be an easier task resulting in the same taste/aroma. He was recommending not only an addition at KO, but also when racking to serving tank after carbing.

Rob

[Fred Scheer]

I had better results (more smoother Vanilla flavors) by adding the vanilla extract 10 min b4 K.O. I made several tests, different additions at each stage of production and came up with the amount b4 K.O.
Good luck and if you in the Nashville area, stop by with a sample. :)
Fred

[RobZamites]

Fred, thanks for the tips, I'm going to KO 15 bbls and use 32 fl. oz then, 10 minutes before KO. And yes, I'd be glad to stop by if I'm in the neighborhood (I grew up in Camden/Paris area)!

Rob

[RobZamites]

Well, it's a no-go for the extract; the kitchen staff had already ordered beans for me. These are so pungent, you can smell them through the packaging! I'm going to split Ron's 9 bean/bbl and beauxman's 2 bean/bbl amounts a go with 5 beans/bbl. The head brewer at the other store in our chain recommended 3 days of primary ferment, then popping them in there while there's still some 'roiling' fementaion action in the unitank. *Shrug*
It's a one time brew, so what the heck, I'll just see what happens :)

Rob

[brewmonkey]

I have done it both ways and found that extract was by far the easier and more economical way as well I was better able to get that exact flavor I was looking for as if you miss your mark you can always add prior to package/serving.

Of course then there is the problem with beans of a bag breaking and you find yourself sitting on the floor of your brewhouse pulling apart a heat exchanger looking for bean parts... :rolleyes:

When I used beans I started with 6 per bbl and found that it was just shy of the flavor/aroma I was looking for.

[RobZamites]

Well, I couldn't stop the bean order in time, so I have a pound of them sitting in my walk-in. I'm just going to chop the hell out of them and add them when I start my VDK rest. We'll see what happens.

Rob

[Larry Horwitz]

Try these guys. They import the beans and are the cheapest I've found in the US for madagascar beans....we buy by the pound. my last order was like $70 for an entire pound!


Nielsen Massy Vanillas
1550 Shields Dr Waukgan IL 60085

800-525-pure

[jason.koehler]

I just ordered materials to make a vanilla brown ale, how much extract should I be using per bbl? I plan on adding 1/2 the amount near the end of the boil, and 1/2 during racking, any advice on this idea?

Thanks!

[RobZamites]

I'm hearing a volume anyewhere from 16 oz. to 32 oz. per barrel. I'd start on the low side, as you can always add more, but if you spike it too much, well, you're spiked ;)

Rob

[BrewerTL]

Anyone ever blended an all natural hazelnut extract with an all natural vanilla extract in a brown ale? Any recommendations on amounts of each?

Cheers!

[jason.koehler]

Ok, I went on the lower side, and added 10 oz to my barrel and I can't help but feel that even that much vanilla extract is washing out my hops... I added 8 oz near the end of the boil, and 2 oz before bottling for finishing.

The taste is smooth...almost too smooth, and while the vanilla aftertaste is very refreshing, and the beer definitely makes me (and my tasters) want to drink more, and more, and more...it wasn't the bite I was looking for.

I bought Madagascar Vanilla extract from Nielsen-Massey, and I'm wondering if that variety is the culprit. For anyone who used the vanilla beans, what kind of results did you come up with?

Thanks!

[RobZamites]

Well, for my 15 bbl. batch of porter, with #1 of fresh chopped/pureed beans added at VDK rest, I ended up with what several patrons have described as "a smooth dark roasted coffee with a shot of vanilla syrup..." beer. I can't stop drinking it ;)
Having never brewed using extract, I was quite pleased with the results of the fresh beans.

[BrewerTL]

Okay.....I'll try again.

Anyone ever used hazelnuts or a hazelnut extract blended with vanilla in a brown ale?

[dlgore]

Virginia Dare produces all manner of flavorings and extracts, from all natural to not. Not all flavors or extracts are stock though, and may need several weeks.
Sounds tasty!
DLG

[GeorgeJ]

im putting plans together for a home brew experiment, im going to make a vanilla stout (sweet)

although vanilla is not at all cheap, i think using extract is pretty poor. go for proper vanilla pods/beans! there's some real harsh nasty tastes in extract i really dont think you want in beer

[frigatebay]

Well I brewed it and its been selling well but I've found that it has a slight acidic taste. I use a 100% pure extract that I get from Tripper. 20bbl batchs with a gallon at knock out and a gallon after primary fermentation is done. Any thoughts? Its seems to mellow a bit over time but I'd like it to be smoother. BTW the base beer is a 1.050 brown ale.

[frigatebay]

just trying t bounce it up to the top. Any help is appreciated. I've talked to several brewers who suggest adding all the vanilla after primary fermentation is done. Reading the old responses it seems like many favor adding it to the boil.

[jason.koehler]

My last vanilla experiment with extract was a failure, ended up dumping about 1/2 the test batch because I was so unhappy with the results. I bottled some up to see how it would age, and it only seemed to get worse over time. It was my 3rd try with extract, and I figure it is pretty much a strikeout for me. I think the Nielsen-Massey was the best results of the 3 brands I tried, but all seemed to be a bit too medicinal for my tastes.

I talked to another brewer who suggested I add extract during primary fermentation, as the co2 would scrub out the harsher flavors, much like it does with hops. Seems like an idea, and I can always test and add more extract to the secondary if I loose too much. Better too little than too much IMO...

Next time I'm going to try vanilla beans like a dry hop in the primary.

[frigatebay]

funny you mention nielsen massey I just decided to switch to them after doing a taste test.

[JPMoreBeer]

Anyone try using Vanilla Powder at all? A supplier of mine has some and I would love to try it out, but not really sure how to use it.

[yogibrewcat]

I used 3bbls of smoked porter and around 100 vanilla beans (cut opened, scrapped, then cut up into pieces tossed into a grundy) it came out wonderful! :D

[Sauce]

I used 3bbls of smoked porter and around 100 vanilla beans (cut opened, scrapped, then cut up into pieces tossed into a grundy) it came out wonderful! :D

WOW.....Am I the only one that thinks 100 beans in 3 barrels is a lil on the extreme side?....or at the very least expensive side.


I know we use 3 beans in a half barrel and can usually refill the keg one more time with decent vanilla character.

[RobZamites]

Yeah, extreme. I used 1/2# of beans in 7 barrels.

[3DogsBarking]

An interesting side note, as some suspected the flavor is much different when vanilla is added with some fermentation still petering along. When added before fully attenuated, a beer takes on a smooth and creamy, almost milk chocolate profile. When added directly to the bright tanks the beer takes on a traditional vanilla flavor, like tasting plain extract. The difference is immense.

[ECB]

Which flavor do you prefer, and/or which one do your customers prefer?

[3DogsBarking]

Which flavor do you prefer, and/or which one do your customers prefer?

The flavor profile of vanilla that has hung out with yeast is far superior. The only issue is that not everyone has the time to let their beer take up tank space for an extra week.

[beauxman]

Forgot about this thread, let me add to my previous suggested amount of beans was based on a brown porter of about 12.5 Plato OG...pretty tame (shout out to G-dog for the vanilla bean work!) Makes me want to make another vanilla bean beer, they are so tasty when done well. Outside of the obvious porters and stouts, has anyone had success with using vanilla in other styles without making them one dimensional?

[RobZamites]

Haven't brewed one, but I tasted an exceptional vanilla cream ale at Prairie Rock Brewing in Chicagoland. It was *phenominal*, tasted just like vaniall cream soda with an added mild hop twist in it!

/hell yes, I'd drink it all day long too!