Hot oil system (rather than steam)

[Bigcat]

Has anyone used a hot oil system (rather than steam) for firing a kettle? I have a 200 gal. dairy tank that I would like to use as a kettle. It is only jacketed on the bottom and I don’t know if low-pressure steam would do the job. It might, I don’t have the experience to know.

Some hot oil systems can go as high as 750* F with low pressure. I haven’t seen many used ones on the market, and they are more expensive than a boiler or steam generator.

If you know anything about this, please tell me whatever you may know; I know next to nothing. Or if you know of a good place to get a used boiler...

Thanks

[liammckenna]

Has anyone used a hot oil system (rather than steam) for firing a kettle? I have a 200 gal. dairy tank that I would like to use as a kettle. It is only jacketed on the bottom and I don’t know if low-pressure steam would do the job. It might, I don’t have the experience to know.

Some hot oil systems can go as high as 750* F with low pressure. I haven’t seen many used ones on the market, and they are more expensive than a boiler or steam generator.

If you know anything about this, please tell me whatever you may know; I know next to nothing. Or if you know of a good place to get a used boiler...

Thanks

I haveseen this used at many brew-on-premise systems (~1/2 bbl batches from extract) very effectively.

I once worked at a brewery at which we put in an 80 hL hot liquor tank with its own stand alone microboiler attached to it. The heat transfer medium from this boiler was 'oil' flowing through a 'coil' in the HLT. It was incredibly effective and efficient. Prior to this installation, we were using a 'shell and tube' hot water system on our main boiler for foundation and sparge water.

The difference this HLT made to flexibility and productivity was instantaneous and more than welcome by all.

As ever, on the cautious side, I insisted that a bright blue dye be added to this 'oil' so, in the event of a catastrophic weld failure, the presence of this 'oil' would be immediately apparent.

I do the same with glycol always. Never had any sort of issue but I guess I'm just anally retentive that way.

BTW: the company who did this for us was http://www.hdpcanada.com/

John Cressman (President) is a very bright guy who always (in my humble experience) has a solution to any production related problem.

Pax.

Liam

[BeerBoy]

From a prior discussion:

http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4699

The system did not work well (and that's being kind to the designer(s)...). The biggest problem is the thermal mass of the heated oil. Once it's up to its set temperature, it takes A LOT of time for it to cool. That oil stayed in the jackets/passages in the kettle and just kept on heating. Think of a situation where you wanted the kettle to be OFF, not just on "coast" for the next two hours? Not very energy efficient in my mind either. Certain industries benefit from this type of heating - but not brewing.
I'd stay away from using oil as a heating media (though as Liam pointed out, heating a HLT with oil might be workable since you don't need the rapid temp. control). So in a word: steam. (And that oil is MESSY - ya don't have to clean up a "steam spill...")

David Anderson
Brewer's Alchemy Exports & Consulting

[Bigcat]

Thanks for the info,

I will, definitely, be calling John Cressman to pick his brain.

One thing with the hole “thermal mass” issue that BeerBoy is talking about, the unit I am looking at works for either heating and/ or cooling. So the unit can cool the “oil” when you are ready to stop. I don’t know how well that would work, or not.

I talked with my father in-law last night (he is a millwright), and he said that he has had good experience with oil units. He did suggest a flow regulation valve rather than a solenoid for controlling the flow to your process. Apparently this is a more efficient way. You can control the temp precisely. Apparently the “oil” (it’s called oil but is really a synthetic liquid with a higher boiling temp) exits the process at a much lower temp than it enters. For our process I would think (still have to talk with a thermo-dynamics guy) that the oil would enter the process at around 300*F and exit at around 220*. That would make much less thermal mass from the oil. Now if you (BeerBoy) had a process (hypothetically) where the oil entered at around 550* and exited at 400*. That would be a crapload of energy still stored in the oil.

So BeerBoy, do you think it was the poor design of your system that was the problem? Or do you think it doesn’t matter with oil?

Thank you both for shearing :)

[BeerBoy]

If oil heat transfer was "the answer" do you not think everyone would be using that method to heat their brewery equipment?
That's what's great about touring breweries - you see ingenuity in action. Brewers are always looking for "a better way" to get to that clean, tasty glass of beer. The only reason this brewery equipment designer/manufacturer used oil was their prior experience with using "oil" for process heating in other industries, and that by using oil, they could by-pass strict and expensive regulations regarding pressure vessels. (You should have seen what they used as a knockout heat exchanger with this system - looked like it came off a nuclear submarine...)
As with most things, do the math. Does oil have the features/benefits that outweigh steam or direct fire? From my experience, that's gonna be a big NO - but your math may vary...

Best of luck,

DA