Questions about FV's and BBT

[Kristian]

Hi
I'm a newbie (on commercial brewing) planning to start a microbrewery and there are a couple of issues... ok alot of issues I'm still uncertain about.

One of them is transferring beer from the FV's to the BBT and from the BBT to the counter pressure filler.

I want to use cylindroconical FV's where I after the primary phase close the blow off valve with a relief pressure of 14.5 psi to let the beer carbonate naturally.

Before transferring the fermented beer to the BBT I would like to purge air from the BBT to avoid exposing my beer to oxygen. To empty the BBT with bottled Co2 would take alot of expensive Co2. Do you guys use Co2 to purge the BBT, or do you use nitrogen supplied from a nitrogen generator?

I suppose the easiest way to transfer the fermented beer from the FV's to the BBT is with a portable pump which can handle beer under pressure?

Is it necessary to push Co2 (or nitrogen) into the FV when emptying to have overpressure over the beer surface to get it running to the pump?
Otherwise I would probably build up a vacuum in the FV keeping the beer from running to the pump?

In the BBT I'm planning to add bottled Co2 to get the desired volume of dissolved Co2 in the beer before bottling.

Is it necessary to have an overpressure of Co2 when transferring to the counter pressure filler to avoid problems with vacuum and foaming in the BBT?
Again using bottled Co2 would waste alot of expensive Co2, so maybe there is a better way of doing it like using a nitrogen generator or something else ???


Cheers,
Kristian

[BrewinLou]

What size tanks are we talking here? You need to ask a CO2 dealer about getting a bulk tank. It will be cheaper then using small tanks.

Letting the beer carbonate naturally will take some time. It will most likely need to be polished up to full carbonation.


You can transfer without a pump, just add CO2 to the FV and bleed off CO2 from the BBT. Make sure yoru transfer hose is sanitized.

Yes you will need to have the beer on pressure to counter pressure fill.

I am not absolutly sure(someone else may want to take this) but I do not think a nitrogen generator will be able to keep up with your needs. But that may also depend on the size of your tanks.

[Kristian]

I'm planning to use 40hl (about 35 BBL) tanks.

A bulk tank might be an option. I'm not sure it will be much cheaper, but it will probably be alot easier than having to change bottles all the time.

[Bham Brewer]

Natural carbonation, when done right, is quicker, easier and cheaper (in the long run) than artificial. I used Barby-Kuhner pressure reliefs on my cylindroconicals (they MUST be ASME certified for pressure or you're doomed), 24 hr +/- after the yeast was pitched, I sealed the tank, pressurized with outside CO2, set the B-K to blow off at 1.4 bars and badda bing... carbonated beer. When crash cooling after fermentation was complete, you need to add a little more CO2 to keep the head pressure stable after the temp dropped.

As to purging the bbt; I don't know of any brewery 5bbl knockout+ that doesn't use a bulk CO2 tank to purge the bbt prior to filling. I'm not saying there aren't some, I just have never encountered one.

I'm sleepy and I'm probably forgetting something important, but that's my 2 cents anyway...

[gitchegumee]

Regarding your planned routine; usually one would use a filter to push the beer from FV to a purged BBT. Do you wish to naturally carbonate? I recommend this; Bham is right. Many folks think the carbonation is finer, too. I have only 1 bar tanks and still manage to save most of my CO2. I use little CO2 to force carbonate to 2.65 volumes. If you choose to flocculate/fine in the FV, then you would skip filtering and use a racking arm on the fermenter with a simple sanitary pump. Use a balance line from the top of your FV to the top of your BBT to equalize pressure during transfer. You will need to adjust the BBT beer carbonation because (unless you use high pressure FVs) your carbonation level will likely be low at one bar in FV at fermentation temperatures. Regarding CO2 use, my CO2 costs are enormous here. I use a South-Tek Beer Blast 400 nitrogen generator and a 500 gallon surge tank to purge BBTs and my filter. Works great so far. Fill your BBT with water, then push it out with N2.