ventless kettle

[whitemarshbrew]

I am looking to find a ventless exhaust system or a scrubber for a brewkettle.
I am currently looking into openeing a brewpub in a new complex that is surrounded by residential properties. The smell from the boiling wort could be a deal breaker for a great location. Has anyone encountered this before and how if so how was it addressed?

[Bham Brewer]

I worked in 2 breweries that had condensation stacks on the kettles. They worked fine, just 3 problems that I could see...

1) Despite condensing MOST of the steam, there was still steam released... as well as hot water and trub... Meant extra heat in the brewhouse

2) The drain off tubing was just sent straight to the floor instead of a drain and there wasn't enough room to get a bucket under the tubing.. so there was a constant spattering of steam, hot water and trub hitting the floor.

3) Kettle evaporation rates were somewhat lower than I was used to, it has been a long time and I can't remember the differences % wise. It wasn't huge, but was notable. Once detected, this is easy to compensate for in recipe formulation. I can not say for sure whether this was a function of the stack used or something else. The two kettles were identical in all ways, so it is possible that there was more than the one design variable at play.

I don't know what the inside of the condensation stacks looked like, they were installed long before I worked at these breweries. I do know that they were self sufficient.. i.e. simply mechanical and air cooled, there was no cooling water going to the stacks.

While I would prefer the conventional stack design, I wouldn't shy away from a condensation stack or something similar. I would perhaps try to incorporate some sort of heat recovery into the design.

The systems that I brewed on using this kind of stack were made by Specific Mechanical. Solid, well made over all.. I would recommend them.

[beertje46]

You're looking for a steam condenser. DME Brewing (http://www.dmebrewing.ca/cat_equiplist_det.asp?id=10635&cattype=1) Link should go right to their condenser. If it doesn't link just scroll down through the Brewhouse equip. section. I have a 30 bbl. Specific Mechanical model for sale.

[Bham Brewer]

You're looking for a steam condenser. DME Brewing (http://www.dmebrewing.ca/cat_equiplist_det.asp?id=10635&cattype=1) Link should go right to their condenser. If it doesn't link just scroll down through the Brewhouse equip. section. I have a 30 bbl. Specific Mechanical model for sale.

Interesting David. That looks nothing like the system I used... as I noted the one(s) I was brewing on didn't have a water inlet or anything like that. The stack came up from the onion dome, elbowed 90 degrees, went out past the edge of the kettle and... stopped. There was a plate bolted to the dead end of the stack which had a 1/2" copper line elbowing down towards the floor... that was it. I was told there was some sort of coil inside the stack, but I never had any need of pulling it apart to investigate...

[DancingCamel]

We had a vapor condensor fabricated for our 10 bbl brewery in Tel Aviv. Was a great way of avoiding confrontation with authorities and we get anywhere from 6% to 10% evaporation depending on season and temp of ground water going into the condensor. As Bham Brewer says, we still do have some steam released in that the exhaust water comes out boiling but nowhere near what would be without the condensor. We did have some trub coming through at the beginning in what was essentially a boilover coming out the vapor condensor. We started using fermcap during boil and that took care of it.

Our condensor was built by DME - they did an excellent job and were great with follow-up questions and advice. Having said that Beertje46's condensor looks like it would also do at least as good.

David

[beertje46]

Ours didn't work all that well due to low water pressure and maybe a little undersized for a 30 bbl. kettle. I would only get 5% evaporation on a good day. I eventually knocked a hole through a brick wall and vented to the atmosphere. We used to get lots of boilover trub into the condeser but Specific had the foresight to include it in the kettle CIP system.

[beertje46]

The smell from the boiling wort could be a deal breaker for a great location. Has anyone encountered this before and how if so how was it addressed?

Where in Baltimore are you planning to open?

I "testified" at a zoning meeting in Athens, OH. as a witness for a brewery owner. The zoning board had researched brewery odor by driving around the A-B plant in Columbus, OH. The guy I was working for received his approval after a short delay. The real stupid kicker was the same zonimng board approved a coffee micro-roastery next door to the new brewpub with out so much as a smell of one. I love some dark roast coffee goodness but the roasting aroma can be overpowering.

[scmorgan]

I brewed on a DME direct fired with condensor. The tanks was 8hl for a 6hl brew length, way to small and used to boil over like a motherf ..... out thru the condensor and to drain. We lost nearly 100l of wort one day due to the constant boil over, no matter how much anti foam was applied it would not stop. 100l on a 6hl brew day is disasterous ...

So if your planning on using one, make sure you can a) CIP it and b) your kettle has plenty of head space - at least 40-50% extra...

Other DME's of the same size locally have the same issues so folks dont use them. This plant had odour issues like the question, hence the issue.

Scotty

[Wes]

Hi Scotty, none of the DME units of that vintage installed in Australia have modulated gas burners - the valve train does not meet local regs and cannot be connected, consequently the burner is either on or off. Attempts to regulate the burner by temperature we also to no avail. Most brewers have resorted to a manual on/off by just waiting until the boilover point and cutting the heat. As you say- a real pain to brew on. The DME kettle condenser design has also been a bit light on capacity for most of the kettle sizes. We use a similar system for our kettles and it works fine. Water temps are around 40C coming out the bottom of the condenser and NO steam. The system fits to the top of the kettle dome bending off at 90º to clear the edge of the kettle then bending again at 90º to finish just above the brewhouse floor. We use 3 spray jets in the condenser. Have a pic but not sure if there is a way of posting it on this forum

Wes

[scmorgan]

Wes you raise a good point on the exit of the condensate, the 2 I have used push near boiling water with steam which is inherently unsafe and also damm hot in the middle of summer.

A steam based boiler with this config would be my preference.

Scotty

[arcangel]

I am looking to find a ventless exhaust system or a scrubber for a brewkettle.
I am currently looking into openeing a brewpub in a new complex that is surrounded by residential properties. The smell from the boiling wort could be a deal breaker for a great location. Has anyone encountered this before and how if so how was it addressed?

I design and build vapour condensers. Apart from reducing the brewing odours to nothing (no steam is emitted from the condenser), you can recover condensate at around 200 deg F. If for example, your evaporation is 10% during the boil, you can recover 70% of the brew length at this temperature, i.e. if your copper holds 20bbl, you have 14bbl of hot water.

In the UK there are many instances where planning permission is dependent on zero emissions, hence a vapour condenser is essential.

Do get in touch if this sounds like something you are looking for.

Arcangel

[sbradt]

I'm trying to size a tube and shell heat exchanger to cool the steam exhausted from the kettle and recover some of my energy to preheat a portion of my process water. Does anyone have any guidance on how much area of heat exchange I'll need for a 40 bbl (gross) kettle volume with a evaporation rate of 5%/hr? Also, how much water I should expect to use/recover given an ambient water temp ranging from 45°F in the winter to 90°F in the Summer? What other considerations are there in the design, placement and orientation of such a heat exchanger? I'm assuming that you run the steam through the tubes and the water through the shell. I also assume that the heat exchanger should point downward from the steam inlet to the steam/condensate outlet. Does it matter what kind of angle? Am I still going to have enough steam that I want to pipe it out of the building in the summertime?

[beertje46]

Steve,
Google tube & shell heat exchangers. I found a bunch of sites and most had a fill in the blank questionaire for sizing/quotation. I think I may have bookmarked some at work. If you don't have any luck I'll see what I have.