Floors

[shortsbrew]

I'm in the process of acquiring a new building for brewing operations and general expansion. One of my biggest concerns at the moment is making sure I get the floors and drainage squared away first thing. The building was formerly for manufacturing so the floors are very flat and probably 4-6" thick of concrete. What kind of options are out there for sloping, sealing and draining? Anyone have any info, comments or suggestions?

[GOOSE]

You don't have to re-slope them, just cut floor drains where you need them, in front of your tanks or brewhouse.
You can use squeegees (SP?) if you want too.

[GlacierBrewing]

Trench drains rule! But, without sloped floors, I hope you love the squeegee!

[canyon]

Do yourself a favor from the outset and pour a cap slab with at least a quarter inch per four feet (I prefer a half inch) pitch to trench drains. Find a concrete guy with experience doing this kind of thing. After two different bad experiences with concrete guys that left me with puddle spots and reverse drainage corners I've learned to do it myself. In a more populated part of the country you should be able to find someone good. After forming a dozen different concrete trench drains I now pre set stainless trench drains to grade. Curbs are also usefull.
Avoid the squeegee from the beginning if at all possible!

[GOOSE]

I've got to agree that if you have the $$$$ then do the pitch, but I've worked without them and it isn't that big a deal if you work smart.

[shortsbrew]

Canyon - thanks for the insight. It's sort of what I was hoping to hear. I want to make this a one time deal, worry free for as long as possible with solid waste trap included. This will be my second brewery installation and from what I have learned from the first, its worth it in the long run to make the investment up front to avoid the long term headache. I have seen another brewery with a similar scenario cut out the entire floor, plumb drains and pour brand new concrete with a generous slope. An outrageous expense no doubt. Are you talking about pouring on top of the existing floor? If so how thick? Hopefully I can attach a photo of the proposed challenge at hand.

[jfulton]

shortsbrew,

If you are going to grade over the existing slab, you can use ardex. It is very durable and adheres better to existing concrete. I think this would be a better option than pouring a slim slab of concrete over the slab. Whatever you choose though, you are still going to have to cut your slab to install your drains and plumbing and tie into your solid waste trap, then fill in the cuts with crete. Here lies the beauty of building from the ground up! If you can afford it, I would cut and remove the slab of each area you want to slope, then grade it when you fill it. How big are your tanks?? Are you comfy with a four inch slab under fully loaded tanks? I'm not an engineer, but I would err on the side of caution here!! I have an 8-10" slab under my seven 300 gallon row of tanks. You can park a semi on it!

I think I proposed more Q than A!! Sorry. Do it right the first time and save yourself the headache and squeegee.

Jamie Fulton
The Covey
Fort Worth, TX

[GlacierBrewing]

We came into an existing (unused) racquetball court. After removing the wood floors, we had a pristine concrete floor, but flat. We poured a sloped-slab on top and integrated the trench drain into the pour, no cutting afterwards. The trench drain runs the entire length of the brewhouse/cellar. The thickness of the slab is probably about ten inches thick. We have a ten-barrel brewhouse, steam boiler, five FVs and five SVs sitting on it.
Love the slope
Love the trench

Prost!
dave

[canyon]

Yes, I mean pour on top. Thickness depends on how thick and what reinforcement is in the original slab but 4" minimum at the lowest point if you pour with good reinforcement and a tight 6 sack mix. As noted above, you will have to cut out for your trench drain and drain pipes (you need to cut wide enough for the trench to have at least 4" of the new pour on all sides) I'd also recommend curbs around the perimeter to keep water out of your walls (these are best done monolithic). I would break the pours up depending on your lay out (you usually want steeper pitch in your brewhouse and perhaps curbs to isolate grains and trub). Also, if you have any point loads you may need seperate footers cut through the original slab. There are many variables unique to each situation. Get someone familiar with this stuff on board whatever it takes. You can save money on other things that you can easily improve later. It is almost never practical or affordable to improve your floor later.

[PMR]

A few months ago I had the decision to either keep the existing floor and cut for drains and footings, or cut the entire brewing / cellar area out and repour 12" deep for the whole area.

With the first option, I was going to have the floors sloped with the urathane mortar system through Stonhard. Apparently this works well, but this was crazy expensive, so I didn't do go that route.

Instead, we cut out the entire area (around 1100 s.f.), poured the floor and 12" x 6" curbs monolithically, and have a nice slope. The labor cost is probably the same with both options, and now I don't have to cut the floors every time I install another fermenter.

I've heard nightmare stories about pouring a layer of concrete on top of the existing floor to create a slope. They are prone to cracking and completely coming apart with all of the thermal shock and abuse brewery floors take.

PM me if you want more detail on prices.

[liammckenna]

"I'm not an engineer, but I would err on the side of caution here!! I have an 8-10" slab under my seven 300 gallon row of tanks. You can park a semi on it!"


A 10" slab for 300 gallon tanks is a huge amount of concrete.

Liam

[jfulton]

Re: 10" slab,

Well we had to cut out the entire area of the brewery and repour the slab. The difference between four inches of extra slab was minimal after all of this process. After seeing 8-12 inch voids under the existing slab after it had been cut, (due to improper drainage around the building) I was liking the idea of a thicker slab more and more. If we ever decide to upsize our tanks I won't need to worry about the floor cracking! Money well spent?? Damn right.

canyon, "It is almost never practical or affordable to improve your floor later."

Amen.

Jamie Fulton