open top fermenters

[gallon]

I am laying out a brewery plan and going to be useing 10 bbl open top dairy fermenters. I was wondering if it was nessesary to build a seperate fermentation room or if they can be in the brew house shareing the same drain etc. Does antone have an opinion?

Cheers
Tim

[Bham Brewer]

I have worked in one brewery with open fermenters. We had a separate room that was used for fermentation, conditioning, hand bottling and kegging. The room was positive pressure with an operating room type a/c / heat unit with filter. The fermenters, while I would consider them open.. as in not sealed/air locked, did have hinged lids and vent holes, which I think is a pretty good compromise...

I would be concerned about contamination from grain dust and other stuff in a non-closed system... big potential for problems. I recommend a room separate from the brewhouse.

[GlacierBrewing]

I brewed in a micro in Colorado that had four 17 bbl open FVs in an isolated room (no a/c or air filtration, just walls and doors). We then expanded the operation to include a 50 bbl brewhouse and cellar while keeping the 17bbl brewhouse and cellar. The 17bbl open fermenters sat right next to the 50 bbl "closed" FVs. That room was quite large, it was the connection from the brewhouse to packaging. It had plastic strips covering the two doorways but that was as high-tech as it went. We never really had any problems with infection. The FVs were always hand sterilized and proper sanitation protocols were always enforced. Remember what the master sez, "Relax, don't worry", have a craft brew! :)

[Bham Brewer]

I brewed in a micro in Colorado that had four 17 bbl open FVs in an isolated room (no a/c or air filtration, just walls and doors). We then expanded the operation to include a 50 bbl brewhouse and cellar while keeping the 17bbl brewhouse and cellar. The 17bbl open fermenters sat right next to the 50 bbl "closed" FVs. That room was quite large, it was the connection from the brewhouse to packaging. It had plastic strips covering the two doorways but that was as high-tech as it went. We never really had any problems with infection. The FVs were always hand sterilized and proper sanitation protocols were always enforced. Remember what the master sez, "Relax, don't worry", have a craft brew! :)

I think the plastic strips would be sufficient, no problems there. I wasn't suggesting that the air filtration was necessary, while I do think it's a pretty good practice and not nearly as expensive or complicated as you would think. One of the reasons for the a/c in that brewery was ambient temp.. the fermenters weren't jacketed and relied on ambient temp to maintain proper fermentation temps.

[kylesmi]

Hey Check out Alesmith in San Diego. They have open fermenters right next to there kettle and alot of times they have there roll up door open in the back. Not sure what all practices there following there, you should give Peter a call.

[Hofer]

I was inspired some times ago by the article of Jim Busch http://hbd.org/brewery/library/OpenFerm.html

He writes:

"OK, so your thinking open fermentation only works in big breweries since they are filtering the air, and keeping the whole room under positive pressure, and nobody is allowed in. Yes, and no. Sure, lots of breweries go to the extreme of maintaining a separate room with filtered air. Lots more don't do anything. Certainly, the breweries in England that I visited never went to the extreme of filtered air, nor did the breweries in Bavaria and Belgium."

My conclusion is you could definitely manage w/o the filtering.

Leonid

[tarmadilo]

I've used open-top dairy tanks in the same room as my brewhouse without problem (had lids on them, though!). There was always some room between the wort and the top, and once fermentation started a pretty good layer of CO2 sitting there between the room air and the beer.

If your brewhouse gets hot, though, you're putting more of a strain on your coolant system!

Cheers, Tim

[el_mocoso]

for what its worth, almost all brewpubs i visited in Germany were open fermentation. Also, Stewarts Brewpub in Delaware has open fermenters, I think they use mostly one house ale yeast and saran wrapped the top of the specialty/hefe fermenters. When i asked about how it is brewing w/ open fermenters, he said he would have designed it different, but you work with what you got.

Cheers.

el

[canyon]

The key to open fermentation is attentiveness. You want to be sure the fermenters are in a state of positiveness(co2 bed on top keeping air out). This means maintaining a strong healthy yeast culture etc. and racking to closed vessels in a timely manner. If you need to ferment in the same area as your brewhouse pay particular attention to isolating and evacuating dust at the sources. As noted above temperatures could be an issue. Can you mill outside? Use a grist hydrator. Hose down.
I personally prefer open fermenting for lack of extra pressure on our single cell friends and ease of cleaning without caustic. I have in the past had to combat ferment open (with lids) in less than ideal areas including moldy cellars and even outdoors in summer (under a roof though) and have found that shelf life can be affected (big surprise). Propogate your yeast properly in a closed vessel and keep the number of generations down.

:)

[Bham Brewer]

It's true that many breweries have success with open fermentation in some less than perfect settings. That being said, if you have the choice.. and the means... to isolate the tanks it reduces your risk long term. If not.. go with what you have... If the tanks have hinged lids, use 'em.. saran wrap works good too.

Indigenous airborne bacteria need to be considered.. What beasties hang in the air in your locale? Set out an agar plate for a couple hours, incubate and see what ya get! I would suggest this for anyone opening a brewery... know your enemy!

[Michael Murphy]

I worked at a brewpub in Germany which we had 2 open fermenters, we had a large piece of plexglass to cover the tops, I think they worked fine.

I even had a special pair of boots to put on to climb in and scrub....

It was however in a seperate area than the brewhouse. I think this is the best if your using open top fermenters.

[gallon]

Thank you all for the response. It is very helpful to here various opinions for me to base a decision on.

Cheers
Tim