Shipping wort for a chain of brewpubs

[midnighthour12]

Hypothetically, say someone owns a chain of 15 "brewpubs" throughout 4 states. The "brewpubs" only have fermentation tanks in them to place the shipped wort into. The wort is produced in a seperate brewery. How would you guys go about shipping this wort? How would you keep it from becoming infected?

[lhall]

I believe this is how Granite City does it. I also think they have patented this process so you might want to check on the legality of infringing on their patent.

http://www.gcfb.net/history.cfm

[midnighthour12]

I believe this is how Granite City does it. I also think they have patented this process so you might want to check on the legality of infringing on their patent.

http://www.gcfb.net/history.cfm


I downloaded some of GC's investment statements and they loosely talked about their patented "Fermentus Interruptus" system. I can understand their mechanical systems being patented, but it seems high doubtful that the actual "idea" of off-site wort brewing and shipping to seperately located fermentation tanks being patented can be patented.

[jarviw]

just because I found this interesting, too...

US Patent # 7,214,402

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7214402.PN.&OS=PN/7214402&RS=PN/7214402

[midnighthour12]

just because I found this interesting, too...

US Patent # 7,214,402

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7214402.PN.&OS=PN/7214402&RS=PN/7214402

Thanks for that very helpful link. It looks like the actual "shipping wort" process is patented. I had absolutely no clue that an "action" could be patented.

[jarviw]

it's considered a "process", a process that they have patented for.

although, other than their point in the complications of "shipping beer in intrastate/interstate commerce", I am still sitting here wondering, is it really worth it?

yes, they saved the hassle of buying hot side equipments and hiring talented brewers. but how is this making them a "brew pub?" (a "cellar pub" maybe?)

besides, wouldn't you need to have a brewery license for each location anyways?



(hey, I have an idea.... how about we ferment the wort in the truck, and just pump out to the pub for lagering? that way we can be "brewing" beer in whatever state that has cheaper tax.)

[ECB]

Why not just use extract? Isn't there a company that makes extract pub systems?

Tom

ECBC

[nohandslance]

I may be missing something regarding this. Why not ship kegged, finished product and transfer to serving tank? Is there a law still in the books that require Tap House/ Breweries to produce 20-30 Bbls per year if they do not have functional breweries in-house. That is actual fermentation on premise. BJ's just built a 50bbl brewery here in Reno to ship product to other BJ's locations that do not have breweries in-house. This is a very interesting post, look forward to reading.

[midnighthour12]

I may be missing something regarding this. Why not ship kegged, finished product and transfer to serving tank? Is there a law still in the books that require Tap House/ Breweries to produce 20-30 Bbls per year if they do not have functional breweries in-house. That is actual fermentation on premise. BJ's just built a 50bbl brewery here in Reno to ship product to other BJ's locations that do not have breweries in-house. This is a very interesting post, look forward to reading.


From what I've gathered in my research, the different liquor laws in each state could make transporting actual fermented beer across state lines illegal. This is the reason for the shipping of wort.

[Larry Horwitz]

FYI that patent is nearly un-enforceable....just change one thing and you'll run. I doubt the patent owner will "vigerously defend" their patent.

why would you do this anyway???? same weight to ship finished beer....

[midnighthour12]

FYI that patent is nearly un-enforceable....just change one thing and you'll run. I doubt the patent owner will "vigerously defend" their patent.

why would you do this anyway???? same weight to ship finished beer....

Refer to post right above yours.

In my no-legal-background opinion, I agree with you on the patent issue as well.

[NYSBrewer]

I agree. Just open a beer bar. Sell craft beer. That kind of situation sounds like it would be a major pain.

[gitchegumee]

I have been to breweries that do this in Australia, and my good pal Boris of Spain was brewmaster at a wort production facility that produced wort for a whole chain of brewpubs there as well. This idea is in no way novel--it's essentially a long knockout hose--and it's been done many times before. I don't think it could be defensibly patented any more than selling frozen bread dough (also "fermentis interruptis"). Why would anyone do this? To have shiny tanks in a "brewpub" atmosphere without having the expense of brewhouse equipment/utilities/redundant inventories/full time brewer/etc/etc/etc. Same as many restaurants do by baking bread from store-bought dough.

[rudge75]

OK, so for a different view:
If you're set on shipping wort from one central facility and fermenting it in different locations, why not do some high gravity brewing, acidify the wort, then dilute and drop the wort down in pH with some water and pH adjustments on the other end.

It's basically what the Brewhouse kits do for homebrewers, except on a larger scale.

I won't pass judgement, it's just another method.

[Dough In]

In europe I used to pump beer from a truck and fill so called "Beer Drive" tanks. Horizontal 5 and 10 HL tanks lined with plastic liner bags.
Some breweries even fill these tanks at the brewery and then ship them out to different pubs etc....
One time I forgot to close the CIP return manifold at the Spendrups brewery when pumping beer into the trucks and "spilled" about 400 HL of beer!!
The brewmaster was kind of upset.....:-)
:)
David Meadows
Technobrew
San Diego, CA

[Tash]

The 'wort house' is in Iowa, since there is no fermentation going on there from what I understand there is no 'license' needed for brewing. They move the 'wort' in diary style trucks moving from location to location. There are only a few 'brewer's for the whole chain. Onsite managers handle filtration, carbonation etc. The patent is sort of a joke but to the uninformed it must seem like 'magic'. Clearly for the investors... The whole thing is to beat the tax man. If you aren't transporting alcohol you aren't having to play around with distributors. If it were finished product and you moved product into a three tier state you'd loose any advantage profit wise as the distributor would 'bend you over'. Smart for profit lame for beer quality...

BJ's in Reno found this out the hard way. California is a three tier state and bringing in beer from Nevada requires them to run it through a distributor. They built the Reno brewery with the intent of bringing a lot of beer to CA. They got 'busted' by the CA dept of Revenue(or similar dept.) for lack of paying taxes. (FYI, this is second hand info I will except being corrected for the record.) BJ's makes way better beer too FYI... Another issue with the BJ's 'way' is they fill 1/2 bbls and transfer into grundies at the restaurant level which must be pretty tedious...

Both groups have figured out a way to get beer to multiple sites both seem to be doing very well without major investments in brewers and equipment for every site served....

Tash

[akenn]

If you really want to do this, vacuum pack in plastic, and chill below 40*F. Transport it in a refrigerated unit, and make sure it doesn't go any higher in temp or fluctuate. It is the same as shipping meat or dairy. I would personally hold it at around 15*F, nothing lives there, but it won't freeze (which could effect the sugar compounds by aligning the crystals)

[canyon]

There is an old community brewery tradition that is still in practice in eastern Franconia, Germany (maybe other areas too) where there is a cooperative brewery but the members haul wort back to their own cellars to ferment. I visited one that still used a cool ship and the members hauled the cool wort home in a tank on a wagon pulled by a tractor. Granted this is for a short haul (under three klicks) on a rural road. It was strange to see an ancient brewery without fermentation or kegs to tap! :)

[World Class Bev]

From what I've gathered in my research, the different liquor laws in each state could make transporting actual fermented beer across state lines illegal. This is the reason for the shipping of wort.

There wouldn't be anything illegal about doing this as long as you have a registered, licensed distributor handle the transfer. I presume that your point about it being illegal relates to the idea of doing it yourself, but going through a distributor for this type of operation is simple and commonplace.